Kelsey:   When and where were 
						you born and raised?
						
						Luboff:  I was born in the
						
						Bronx, New York, 
						September 1940, and raised in
						
						New York City.
						
						Kelsey:   And where did you go 
						to college?
						
						Luboff:  Went to college at
						
						Hunter College.  It’s 
						now called
						
						Lehman College.  But I 
						went to college then, part of the city university 
						system.  Did my master’s work at
						
						Seton Hall University.  
						Started my
						
						Ph.D. at
						
						Loyola, and did some 
						graduate work two summers at
						
						Selwyn College,
						
						Cambridge, in
						
						England.
						
						Kelsey:   And when did you 
						graduate?
						
						Luboff:  From undergraduate 
						school?
						
						Kelsey:   Yes.
						
						Luboff:  Undergraduate school, 
						let’s see, 1962.
						
						Kelsey:   And when did you get 
						your
						
						Ph.D.?
						
						Luboff:  I didn’t finish my
						
						Ph.D.  After I left
						
						Loyola—I had a
						teaching fellowship at 
						
						Loyola University for 
						one year, and for numerous reasons, one of them being 
						living on a teaching fellowship, I couldn’t afford to do 
						that anymore.  So I got a job teaching full time, 
						actually, for three years, at
						
						Chicago City College, 
						at one of the branches.
						
						Kelsey:   What year was that?
						
						Luboff:  That was in 1965, I 
						think.  Right, ’64-’65.  I was there for three years.  
						The last semester there at that time is when I found out 
						about the opening of
						
						County College of Morris—the 
						possible opening—and applied.
						
						Kelsey:   What subjects were 
						your degrees in?
						
						Luboff:  In English.
						
						Kelsey:   Why did you decide 
						to teach?
						
						Luboff:  Actually, I hadn’t 
						planned to teach; I planned to go into editing.  The 
						teaching fellowship at
						
						Loyola involved 
						teaching two sections of Comp 1.  I was twenty-three; I 
						had never been in the classroom 
						before.  I was not prepared for the classroom.  I was 
						told as part of my
						
						teaching fellowship I had to teach 
						two sections of Comp 1.  Given books for the course, I 
						walked in the classroom, and ten minutes after that, I 
						knew that’s where I wanted to be—editing was out.
						
						Kelsey:   How did you find out 
						about
						
						County College of Morris?
						
						Luboff:  One of my friends was 
						doing his
						
						Ph.D. studies in 
						chemistry back east, in
						
						New Jersey in fact, and 
						knew how much I wanted to get back east, because I 
						really was a
						
						New Yorker, born and 
						bred.  Still consider myself a
						
						New Yorker, born and 
						bred.  He saw an ad in the paper.  It was a small ad, 
						cut it out—actually tore it out—it wasn’t even neatly 
						trimmed—about this job at
						
						County College.  So I 
						sent away for an application.  
						Hadn’t heard anything for a while.  I 
						telephoned.  Application finally came. 
						Filled out the application.  
						I hadn’t heard anything, so I called up and said, “I’ll 
						be back east for Christmas, can I arrange an 
						interview?”  Everything was arranged, and that was it.
						
						Kelsey:   So describe what the 
						interview was like.
						
						Luboff:  Well, it was quite 
						interesting.  I didn’t even think I was going to make 
						the interview.  At that point, being a
						
						New Yorker I had no 
						driver’s license, didn’t need a 
						car, had not even a 
						permit.  So I had to take two
						
						subways from the
						
						Bronx to the tip of
						
						Manhattan, to get the
						
						Staten Island Ferry, in a raging snowstorm. 
						Took the
						
						ferry across to
						
						Staten Island.  
						One of my friends who lived 
						in
						
						Staten Island, drove me 
						to 
						East Hanover for the 
						interview.  Dean Gilsenen was the 
						one who interviewed me at the time.  It was an 
						interesting interview, because I was a bit nervous, but 
						he put me at ease, because after five minutes of asking 
						me questions, he spent the rest of the time asking me 
						what I wanted to know about the college, and what I 
						would like to do for the college as a founding member, 
						if I got hired.  So I felt very comfortable, and two 
						weeks later I had a contract in the mail, which was 
						quite nice, and a very, very pleasant surprise.
						
						Kelsey:   What drew you to a
						
						county college?  They 
						were a new phenomenon in most parts of the country.
						
						Luboff:  Well, yeah.  If I 
						recall correctly, at the same time, if I’d stayed in
						
						Chicago, I would have 
						been—if I’m not mistaken—assistant professor, instead of 
						instructor, the following year.  I would have had tenure 
						as well.  Coming here meant I gave that up.  But as I 
						said, I wanted to come back east, and the big draw, I 
						think, was the fact that I’d be on the ground floor of 
						the English department, which was nice, because….  Not 
						that I knew that I would have a say in the 
						founding of the English department, but in the back of 
						my mind, it was a nice possibility at least to think 
						about—plus I’d be back east, at a college, new people, 
						and that was a big draw to me.
						
						Kelsey:   How old were you 
						when you started working at
						
						CCM?
						
						Luboff: 
						
						CCM? 
						Twenty-seven.
						
						Kelsey:   What was the 
						physical campus like at that time?
						
						Luboff:  (laughs)
						Boy, that was interesting!  
						If I recall correctly, there was only
						Henderson Hall, and that 
						wasn’t totally completed yet.  In fact, we had postponed 
						opening the college for two weeks, because it had not 
						been completed.  But when we did complete it….  Well, it 
						was sort of completed, Henderson Hall.  We were in 
						classrooms with doors still being worked on, windows 
						being adjusted, and a flood in the president’s office.  
						When the chains were pulled, I understand, in one of the 
						bio labs or chemistry labs, to see if the piping was 
						correct, water plunged into the president’s office.  So 
						it was sort of an interesting combination.  Ground had 
						been broken for the library, the student center, and 
						maybe for the “A” Building.  So it was lots of mud, 
						skeleton buildings, and as far as Henderson Hall went, 
						everything was there.  You had your 
						cafeteria, your classrooms, your offices, your 
						library, your supply cabinets—everything was in 
						this one building.  And with 600 
						students and 35 faculty, 
						everybody was sort of there and got to know everybody 
						very, very well.  So it was a very pleasant experience, 
						actually.
						
						Kelsey:   What were the
						parking lots like?
						
						Luboff:  I don’t remember 
						parking lots, to tell you the truth.  There must have 
						been one, but that I don’t remember.  What I do remember 
						about parking was that when I came to
						
						County College, I still 
						didn’t have a driver’s license, and no
						car.  And I was living, at 
						the time, the first couple of weeks, in
						
						Kenvil New Jersey.  
						After that, when I met Hank Founds 
						of the bio department, who wanted to get out of his 
						house, I was looking for a roommate, we got a place in
						
						Morristown.  I did 
						apply for a driver’s license and went to buy a car.  My 
						first car was delivered on November 
						11, my driver’s license test was on December 2.  
						So that I was dependent upon a car, somebody else giving 
						me a lift.  The first couple of weeks when I didn’t know 
						anybody, I literally was hitchhiking to school from
						
						Kenvil.  In fact, one 
						day—it was embarrassing—I was on the road with an 
						attaché case near
						
						Kenvil, on Route 10, 
						hitchhiking, and then I heard a honking in the distance 
						about 200 feet down the road.  I ran up, there were two 
						young guys in the car, and I 
						said, “Are you going past
						
						County College?”  And 
						they said, “You might as well get in, you’re our 
						professor.”  That was a bit embarrassing.  However, they 
						had a car and I didn’t.  But I did eventually get lifts 
						from faculty until I got my car and then the test was on 
						December 2.
						
						Kelsey:   What kind of a car 
						did you drive?
						
						Luboff:  It was a
						
						Rambler American—a 
						white, 
						Rambler American, my 
						first car, which cost a little over $2,000 at the time.  
						One very pleasant problem of being close with
						students and 
						faculty—and I think being young at the time, too, 
						close to the students’ age—was that everybody got to 
						know everybody very well.  I was the moderator of the
						literary magazine at the 
						time.  Hank Founds was the 
						moderator of the newspaper.  
						When it was found out that I’d just gotten my driver’s 
						license—was getting it—this made the front page of the 
						newspaper, with a black border.  That went around the 
						school like wildfire, of course, and I paid the piper 
						for that bit of news.  But it was a very pleasant, funny 
						experience.
						
						Kelsey:   What was the
						cafeteria like?
						
						Luboff:  It was small, I 
						remember that.  I don’t remember, to tell you the truth, 
						whether there was any hot food there, or it was all 
						machines.  I remember vending machines there.  There 
						probably was something to get sandwiches or some hot 
						foods.  I just don’t recall, to tell 
						you the truth.  But it existed, because everything was 
						in one building.
						
						Kelsey:   What were the rules 
						regarding
						
						smoking on campus and 
						in the classrooms?
						
						Luboff:  I don’t remember
						rules, I don’t remember 
						seeing anybody
						
						smoking in the 
						classroom or in the hallways.  This is not to say they 
						didn’t do it.  I wasn’t a
						
						smoker, so it didn’t 
						affect me directly.  But I don’t remember anything in 
						the classroom.  I don’t remember anybody eating in the 
						classroom or
						
						smoking in the 
						classroom, or anything along those lines.
						
						Kelsey:   What was the 
						atmosphere like on campus, during that first semester?  
						There had been a lot of really jolting events in the 
						previous months, with
						
						Bobby Kennedy and….
						
						Luboff:  Yeah.  That was an 
						interesting time.  I talk to my 
						students about it today, when the situation arises 
						where that is necessary to talk about or give as an 
						example.  The country was torn apart with
						
						Vietnam.  There were 
						very few people, at least among the 
						faculty, and my friends in particular, who didn’t 
						have an opinion about
						
						Vietnam.  You were
						either for it or against 
						it—for America’s involvement, or against America’s 
						involvement. 
						
						Demonstrations existed, 
						but I don’t remember a
						
						demonstration on campus.  
						I remember one of the faculty members in the English 
						department—I’m not going to mention a name—at the time 
						said to his classes, because the president had given 
						permission for a certain time in classes, students can 
						miss class during the daytime to have a meeting on 
						campus about
						
						Vietnam.  It was a 
						beautiful fall day—I do remember that—and none of his 
						students wanted to go to it.  They just didn’t feel they 
						wanted to do it.  It seemed almost apathetic, which was 
						very surprising, because the student body at that 
						time—at least I remember talking to students—there were 
						a number of students who did have opinions.  But to see 
						a large number not really care at the time was a little 
						disconcerting, a little disappointing.
						
						Kelsey:   Why do you think 
						that was?
						
						Luboff:  I don’t know, 
						I’m no sociologist, to tell you the truth.  There were 
						certainly demonstrations in the bigger cities.  I find 
						it very strange, as many people do, that there aren’t as 
						many demonstrations today about Iraq, to tell you the 
						truth—either pro or con.  Certainly the world was 
						in turmoil over
						
						Vietnam—maybe because 
						it was a small community, maybe because it was a 
						conservative community.  Again, I can’t pass judgment on 
						that, or even come up with a viable answer, because I 
						just don’t know.
						
						Kelsey:   What was the world 
						like for you in 1968?  What concerned you?
						
						Luboff: 
						
						Vietnam certainly did.  
						Getting settled at a job, a job I loved.  I mean, even 
						today I can’t even imagine myself doing anything 
						else but teaching.  I did retire 
						last year.  Most people said, “Oh, you’re gonna love 
						retirement!”  I absolutely hated it.  I don’t love it 
						now, I don’t hate it now.  I’m not comfortable with it.  
						I miss the classroom desperately.  
						In fact, I came in the fall, I would come by simply to 
						hang around with my colleagues, my friends in the 
						English department, and it was obviously showing that I 
						missed the classroom.  And one day I walked into the 
						English department, and my chairperson saw me at the 
						other end of the department hall, and motioned to me and 
						said, “Jerry, I’ve got you down for two classes in the 
						spring”—without even asking me!  And I don’t think I was 
						ever happier, to tell you the truth.  And when I came 
						back in the spring, it was absolutely wonderful.  I 
						loved being back in the classroom.
						
						                        And so coming 
						in on the ground floor on the English department, and 
						not realizing I was setting it up, consciously realizing 
						this was what I was doing, helping to set up the 
						department, it was a wonderful experience:  instituting 
						new courses, determining how courses were to be taught, 
						choosing textbooks, looking through many textbooks, and 
						actually have a say, which is what I didn’t have 
						in 
						Chicago.  Then again, 
						what was I? twenty-four, 
						twenty-five, coming into a college there, that had 
						already been in existence.  I was pretty free in the
						department, in the classroom, 
						so to speak—relatively free—but here I was sort of big 
						man on campus, basically, with the five original
						faculty in the English 
						department.   So it was an exciting time.  It was 
						exciting to meet new people, it was exciting to have a 
						new social life with faculty, 
						with students, because as I 
						said, many of us were close to the age of the 
						students—not that we dated them or anything like 
						that—but they would drop in at our apartment, and it was 
						nice seeing that, and having that kind of a rapport.  So 
						on the whole, yeah, it was a 
						very exciting time, academically speaking.
						
						Kelsey:   Was the student body 
						and the faculty-staff diverse?  
						Were there as many women as men, for example?  Different 
						races, ethnic groups?
						
						Luboff:  Boy, I’d have to 
						think about that, but my gut response is yes, there 
						were.  We had females in the English 
						department, we had males in the English 
						department.  We had
						
						Jewish people, we had
						
						Christians.  I don’t 
						know what other religions we had.  What other races we 
						had, that I’m not quite certain of.  I don’t want to say 
						yea or nay to the fact that it was that diverse.  
						But I don’t remember seeing or hearing about any 
						prejudices from administration, 
						from faculty, or from student at the time, to 
						tell you the truth.  It seemed to be a very 
						communal atmosphere, a collegial atmosphere.
						
						Kelsey:   Did you encounter 
						any veterans?
						
						Luboff:  Oh, yeah.  Yeah, 
						there were quite a few veterans on campus.  In fact, 
						there was a veterans’ organization that had been 
						formed—I can’t tell you what month or year—but yeah, 
						there was a veterans’ organization on campus—not that I 
						had any direct involvement.  I mean, I never had a 
						discussion saying, “Gee, what do you 
						think about
						
						Vietnam?” 
						No, that I didn’t.
						
						Kelsey:   How were they 
						treated?
						
						Luboff:  From what I 
						understand, and what I could see, I never heard any 
						complaints.  So again, as I said, I never had any direct 
						involvement, so I couldn’t pass judgment on that.  
						Overtly I didn’t hear anything negative.
						
						Kelsey:   What was
						social life like for
						faculty, and for those working at 
						the
						
						college, at that time?
						
						Luboff:  It was pretty good.  
						I mean, as I said, it was a new body of friends for me, 
						because I was leaving
						
						Chicago after four 
						years.  And we were all new on campus.  Now, some had 
						taught before, others were new at 
						teaching, but because we lived in a closed 
						community, we socialized a lot together—we often did, 
						whether we were married or single at the time.  We had 
						dinners at each other’s homes, parties, get-togethers, 
						and multi-divisional, multi-department parties.  It 
						wasn’t limited to the English department getting 
						together, or the soc department getting together.  As I 
						said, students would drop in 
						periodically, too, at our apartments—not on a daily 
						basis, by any stretch of the imagination.  So it was a 
						very lively and social atmosphere—very pleasant, very, 
						very pleasant.
						
						Kelsey:   Was there a local 
						hot spot or spots?
						
						Luboff:  You know, I remember 
						periodically going to….  Gosh, what’s the name?  With 
						Hank Founds we went to something 
						Brown’s in
						
						Morristown.  I can’t 
						think of the full name, but we’d go there periodically.  
						Especially if you were single you went there.  Hank and 
						I periodically went to
						
						New York to
						
						Your Father’s Moustache. 
						Went to
						
						McSorley’s
						in
						
						New York.  In 
						fact, it was amazing:  one day we were at
						
						McSorley’s in the 
						wintertime, in
						
						New York. 
						Hank and I had gone.  It was 
						wintertime and the potbelly stove was going, because it 
						was very cold outside, it was very crowded.  And before 
						long, a number of students from
						
						County College came 
						in.  Whether they were of legal age or not at the time 
						in 
						New York—I don’t know 
						if it was eighteen at the time in
						
						New York to drink—but 
						we all had a table together, and that was quite 
						an evening.  It was a lot of fun.
						
						                        So yeah, 
						there were places we went to in
						
						New York and in
						
						Morristown, people’s 
						homes.  So it was a very nice time, very pleasant, very
						social time.  Maybe part of 
						it involving students, because we were younger, as I 
						said.  Part of it was because we were all new, and in 
						one building.  Even when the “A” Building was opened the 
						following year, we were still very close
						faculty—very close.  And then of 
						course it grew.  And then things changed.
						
						Kelsey:   How did you
						dress to go to work in 1968?
						
						Luboff:  Oh, it was still 
						trousers and shirts; sweaters in the wintertime or the 
						fall; and sometimes a tie.  But that’s the way I used to 
						dress.  Very rarely did I wear a jacket, but sometimes a 
						jacket too.  Personally, I like getting dressed up for 
						class—not that I do it now.  I don’t wear a tie to class 
						usually.  But I do wear a sweater, trousers, shirt, that 
						sort of thing.  Students also were more formally 
						dressed.  Very few seemed to be in jeans—they wore 
						trousers, khakis basically, sweaters, shirts.  I don’t 
						want to say it was the preppie look, but it was more 
						preppie than dress today, certainly.
						
						Kelsey:   What about the women 
						faculty, the women students?  Do you 
						remember, did they wear pants?
						
						Luboff:  I don’t remember, 
						to tell you the truth.  I just don’t remember.  My 
						initial reaction is they didn’t, because it wasn’t the 
						style, but I don’t recall.
						
						Kelsey:   Describe what
						Route 10 looked like at that 
						time.
						
						Luboff:  Oh boy!
						a lot different than it does 
						today.  I was coming from
						
						Morristown.  Basically 
						I’d get off Ridgedale Avenue onto 10, and the 8½ miles 
						or so to the college.  There were farms on both sides, 
						for the most part.  There was a big cornfield, I 
						remember, on one side; a dairy farm on the other.  And 
						woods where there weren’t farms.  There were no shopping 
						centers, no industry, no hotels, none of that existed—it 
						was country, definitely.
						
						Kelsey:   What about the 
						Center Grove Road corner?
						
						Luboff:  I don’t recall that, 
						to tell you the truth, what that was like.  There 
						certainly wasn’t a
						
						CVS [drugstore] there, 
						or a bank, or a shopping plaza—not at the time.  I just 
						don’t recall what else was there.  But those places were 
						not there.
						
						Kelsey:   And what about the 
						apartments?
						
						Luboff:  Where we lived?
						
						Kelsey:   No, the apartments
						that are off Center Grove 
						Road now.  Were they there in 1968, any of them?
						
						Luboff:  The Hamiltonian, I 
						don’t know about ’68.  Hank and I 
						roomed together for three years before he got married.  
						We lived in
						
						Morristown for two of 
						those three years, and then we lived in the Hamiltonian 
						Apartments the third year.  So they must have existed 
						before the third year.  They probably were there.  And 
						there was that little shopping plaza across the road, 
						because I remember there was a travel agency that I used 
						at the time, at that little shopping plaza across 
						Route 10—so that did exist.
						
						Kelsey:   Where the
						
						A&P is now?
						
						Luboff:  Yeah.
						
						Kelsey:   What were the
						students like?
						
						Luboff:  Friendly, social, 
						sociable.  They were, for the most part, very 
						good students, very good 
						workers.  I remember very honestly the 
						grades.  And I know my reputation as a teacher.  
						I’ll kid around with students, I’ll bend over backward 
						for them, but boy, they have to do the work—and that’s 
						my reputation today, it was then.  And I gave a lot more 
						“A’s” and “B’s” then, than I do now.  If I recall 
						correctly from my colleagues in other departments too, 
						there were very few “D’s” and “F’s” in those early 
						years.  A lot more “A’s” and “B’s” 
						and “C’s.”  Today there seems to be….  It’s 
						interesting, because I’ve discussed this with a number 
						of faculty:  
						there seem to be more “A’s” and “B’s” coming around 
						today, a number of “D’s” and “F’s,” and very few “C’s” 
						in between.  It seems to be sort of a cosine curve, 
						rather than a sine curve that we had then.  But they 
						were very good students, very good students.
						
						Kelsey:   Do you think that 
						the
						
						draft had anything to 
						do with students applying themselves?
						
						Luboff:  I don’t know.  I 
						think over the years where I’ve seen—and I can’t 
						pinpoint the times or the years—I think that there’s 
						been a lot of government pressure, perhaps
						
						federal government to
						
						state government, to 
						lower standards, to bring everybody else to a common 
						denominator, whereas in the past you really had to 
						work.  I’m not saying the
						
						draft didn’t have 
						something to do with it.  I think those
						students were better prepared, 
						better prepared for a college education.
						
						Kelsey:   Describe a typical 
						day in the classroom.
						
						Luboff:  I don’t think it’s 
						much changed—at least in my classrooms.  When I had my 
						student reviews as an adjunct for the first time this 
						past semester—I guess it was spring semester—there’s a 
						question about what they liked about me, and the 
						course—I guess about me— what they disliked.  They 
						disliked the research paper, but that’s happened for 
						years.  They don’t like to work—that’s a requirement of 
						the college.  But they seemed 
						to get through with it.  What they liked 
						about me—and this was from quite a few comments, if they 
						put it in a few words—was my sense of humor.  I do kid 
						around a lot with the students.  I do make English—poetry, 
						short stories, drama—relatable to them, put it on a 
						common denominator level, but raise that common 
						denominator level so they have a critical understanding 
						of the work.  And I’ll kid around, as long as they do 
						the work in the course.  I did that at the beginning, I 
						do that now.  I have not changed my sense of direction 
						in the classroom.
						
						Kelsey:   Is the interaction 
						with the students in the classroom pretty much the 
						same?  Were there differences between then and now?
						
						Luboff:  I’m guessing to a 
						certain extent, but I think it’s an intellectual guess:  
						I think in the past, at the beginning, those first ten 
						years let’s say, we had a lot more participation in the 
						classroom, less use of 
						
						Cliff’s Notes, more 
						reading of the primary sources.  I’m not saying I have 
						anything against 
						
						Cliff’s Notes, as 
						long as they read the primary sources—in fact, I 
						recommend it, if they read the primary sources, if 
						that helps them.  I get less participation 
						now—not one or two students—I 
						get quite a few students participating, and because I 
						explain that participation doesn’t mean necessarily 
						having the right answers.  You can have the wrong 
						answers.  It just doesn’t mean raising your hand saying, 
						“Can we leave today earlier?”  That’s participation, 
						no.  Being wrong is part of the 
						classroom experience.  I explain that to 
						them—there’s nothing wrong in being wrong.  So I do 
						get participation.  I wish I had 100% participation, but 
						that’s a dream world.  I didn’t have it forty years 
						ago.  But I had more then than I do now, but I would say 
						a significant number still participate—without begging.
						
						Kelsey:   Describe what was 
						considered cutting edge classroom technology in 
						1968.
						
						Luboff:  Boy, “cutting edge 
						classroom technology.”  I think cutting edge classroom 
						technology involved bringing something outside the 
						classroom into the classroom, in a reverse way.  I had 
						my student go to the theater, and I would go with them 
						as well.  And we did that a lot.  We went to the theater 
						in 
						New York.  And even 
						though, very honestly, most of the students lived 45 
						minutes to an hour from
						
						New YorkCity, most of 
						them had not been to
						
						New York City before.  
						If they had gone, it was to a hockey game, basketball 
						game, and for a beer at
						Blarney Stone Tavern, 
						and that was what they knew about
						
						New York.  I literally 
						had one student say to me—and I’m not joking about 
						this—“Professor Luboff, you go to
						
						New York a lot, don’t 
						you?”  And I said, “Yes, I do.”  He said, “What’s there 
						to do in
						
						New York?”  And he 
						wasn’t being snide about it either. 
						
						New York was not part 
						of their experience.  And so going to the theater and 
						watching their eyes turn into silver dollar sizes, when 
						they’d see people on the street who they did not see in
						
						Morris County—their 
						clothing, their dress, their mannerisms—and seeing the 
						live theater, other than a high school production in a
						
						Morris County high 
						school, was something new to them.  And theater, of 
						course, was viable.  It was less expensive, much less 
						expensive than it is today.  When I tell them that the 
						top price of a ticket at the
						
						Met now is over $200, 
						they can’t believe it.  Prices at 
						the theater in
						
						New York City, even if 
						you have a two-fer, still $55-$65.  That’s a lot 
						of money—it’s a lot of money for me!  But we 
						would go to
						
						New York, and then we 
						would talk about it in the 
						classroom.  So bringing that 
						experience to the classroom.  If I would teach 
						American lit, for example, which is what my area was, 
						and we’d talk about American literature in the early 19th 
						century, talk about the
						
						Hudson River school of art, 
						because I would bring in artwork, and tell them what was 
						going on in music or art history at the time.  We would 
						go to the museum, too. We would do that.  I would not 
						give them permission to cut other classes—they would 
						have to get permission on their own, and take the 
						responsibility—but we’d meet on my prep day in
						
						New York City.  We’d go 
						to the museum with another faculty member 
						and her classes too—whoever wanted to do it.  We 
						wouldn’t have 100% of the students, 
						but a large number did that.
						
						                        On my prep 
						day to do research, I gave them a guided tour of the
						
						New York Public Library.  
						We would meet and then go for lunch in
						
						New York City.  And 
						that was an experience, because I remember one time in 
						particular they all wanted to go for beer and hamburgers 
						after I gave them this personal guided tour of the
						
						New York Public Library in 
						research.  I took them to my favorite Indian restaurant, 
						in an Indian section of
						
						New York in the
						
						East Village.  They had
						no idea what the food was.  They didn’t want to 
						go.  I ordered everything.  There were eleven of us.  I 
						ordered everything.  They did not have to wash those 
						plates afterward.  They loved it.  And that was 
						an experience they had never had before in their 
						lives—because they’d not been to
						
						New York City.  And 
						when they asked me periodically what should they do in
						
						New York, where should 
						they go—they’re going to a basketball game, what else 
						could they do?—I said, “Follow your nose.  You’re not 
						going to get yourself into trouble.  Just follow your 
						nose.”  And I gave them ideas, but pretty much, “Go 
						shopping at
						
						Bonwit Tellers.  If 
						you’re of legal age, go for a beer at the
						Blarney Stone.  Do 
						something.  Just go to the 
						library!  Spend a couple of hours in the library if 
						you have to, if you’ve got research to do.”  So bringing 
						that part of an experience—museums, theater, 
						restaurants—into the classroom, 
						that to me was cutting edge, because they didn’t do that 
						in 
						Chicago.
						
						                       
						Technology, I don’t even 
						remember what we had.  We had record players.  I 
						remember playing records in the classroom, music of a 
						period:  1920s, for example, we did
						
						Hemingway or
						
						Fitzgerald, that sort 
						of thing.  Did we have cameras?  Did we have CDs?  No, 
						we didn’t have that.  We didn’t even have tapes.  So 
						that didn’t exist.  Purple ink 
						
						mimeograph machines.  I think we were past that, 
						but not far past that, at that point.
						
						Kelsey:   It’s an interesting 
						parallel that you draw when you mentioned earlier about 
						the students seemed somewhat 
						apathetic about the
						
						Vietnam War, and….
						
						Luboff:  That was one 
						experience.  I don’t want to judge other classes or my
						students.  I’m repeating what 
						happened with one other teacher in his class.
						
						Kelsey:   But they also seemed 
						to have not a lot of knowledge about what was going on, 
						even in
						
						New York, because you 
						really introduced them to that, it was an experience 
						they had never had.
						
						Luboff:  Right.  It was an 
						insular community.  More open, I think, and more 
						responsive perhaps, the way I saw it, than it was later 
						on.  And I think the pendulum has begun to swing the 
						last couple of years, to tell you the truth, when I was 
						a full-time faculty in the last 
						few years—or adjunct.  I think the students are becoming 
						more responsive to the world around them.  I think they 
						have to, because of the economy, for one thing.  I think 
						that’s made them more responsive, perhaps.  I think 
						because of the political scene, without the
						draft, the political scene has made 
						them more responsive—at least I’m hoping.
						
						Kelsey:   What do you remember 
						most about that first year?
						
						Luboff:  Being back east, 
						having
						
						New York at my 
						fingertips.  Being back in a 
						classroom where I was able to have a say in what 
						went on, in the books I used, the papers I gave, the 
						assignments I made.  And very honestly, in my 40 years 
						here—39 full-time, 1 year adjunct—I’ve had three 
						chairpeople.  And every one of those chairpeople was 
						good as far as I was concerned, in that as long as we 
						did the work, we were masters of our own classroom.  So 
						for 40 years, I had my own business, so to speak.  I was 
						visited in the classroom, I was evaluated by faculty, by
						administration, but I did 
						the work.  And as long as I did the work, there were no 
						complaints.  And that was a wonderful experience.  That 
						first year, setting it up, was exciting.  It was 
						exciting being, as I said before, with new people,
						faculty and 
						students.  It was exciting being close to
						
						New York and taking 
						my students to
						
						New York.  Well, not 
						taking them—they went to
						
						New York, I gave them 
						driving directions to a restaurant, and some of us met 
						in a restaurant.  Going to museums 
						with them.  Yeah, I had that at my fingertips, 
						and that was exciting.
						
						Kelsey:   How have
						
						CCM and its students 
						changed since 1968?
						
						Luboff:  Method of
						dress, for one thing, certainly.  
						But that’s minor.  After those first fifteen years, I 
						think we had a problem academically.  I think that 
						students came to us, in many cases, not as prepared as 
						they could have been.  I’m not blaming the high
						schools, I’m not blaming the 
						middle schools.  Maybe the students felt they needed to 
						work [i.e., to earn money] more, because they did work.  
						Many of the students do work now, and try to carry a 
						full-time [class] load.  We found that the students 
						academically were not as productive, let’s put it that 
						way.  Yet there were good students, and there were 
						students who were not so great.  As I said in the last 
						few years—maybe it’s in my 
						classrooms, but I have a feeling, talking with my 
						colleagues, I think students are improving.  I think 
						academically—maybe I’m wrong—but I think academically I 
						think they’re improving because they realize that this 
						is a global economy now.  The economy of the
						
						United States is not 
						great, jobs are important, they need college degrees, 
						the college degrees are important.  And I think a whole 
						lot of factors are coming into play here, and so they’ve 
						become more serious in the classroom than they were, 
						let’s say, in a prior 
						period.  That’s my own judgment—I can’t speak for other 
						instructors.
						
						Kelsey:   And how about the 
						college itself, how has it changed?
						
						Luboff:  Bigger, for one 
						thing.  Communication within my department is still very 
						good.  Communication that I have with other departments 
						is very good.  Over the years, with various 
						presidents—and I don’t know if it’s because the 
						first-year faculty had a special 
						relationship with the 
						administration—but we always felt—now I 
						accidentally said “we”—but I have a feeling it’s 
						true—certainly I always felt very comfortable with 
						whoever was president or vice-president or dean, for the 
						most part.  Felt I could walk into the office and speak 
						my mind.  And there was a response to that thought and 
						that conversation.  I still feel it, when I speak to 
						President Yaw, I speak to 
						anybody who had been here before, although many of them 
						are gone now.  There was that comfort level.  That, to 
						me, always existed.  So I don’t think that’s changed for 
						me.  With newer faculty, there may be a different 
						thing—you’d have to ask newer faculty, people who’ve not 
						had that kind of relationship.
						
						                        I think the 
						size of the college—and that’s just the physical element 
						there—makes it impossible to have the closeness that 
						once existed.  I mean, when you’re all in one building, 
						it’s easy to walk into the president’s office or 
						vice-president’s office and say, “Hi!” and have lunch 
						together, or a cup of coffee or a cup of tea.  It’s not 
						easy when you’re in “B” or “C” Building, fifteen minutes 
						between class, to walk down 
						to the president’s office.  Although 
						the reception is the same.  It’s just physically 
						impossible.  But it’s like that on bigger campuses too, 
						I would imagine.
						
						Kelsey:   Is there anything 
						else you’d like to add?
						
						Luboff:  I miss the place.  
						I’m glad I was back in the spring.  In the fall I can’t 
						be back teaching, even adjunct 
						work, but I’ve found out there’s a tutorial program, and 
						I’ll probably do that for a few weeks.  And I’ve already 
						told the secretary of the department I’ll be back in 
						spring to teach.  It’s part of my life.  And though I 
						live 51 miles away, and friends have suggested—even 
						people here have suggested—“Why don’t you teach locally 
						at a college?”—it’s not home.  This is home.
						
						Kelsey:   Well, thank you very 
						much.
						
						Luboff:  You’re quite 
						welcome.  Thank you!
						
						[END OF INTERVIEW]
						
						
 
						INDEX